Techless founder, Chris Kaspar, sits down with Josh Glaser, Executive Director of Regeneration, to help equip parents when talking to kids about pornography exposure or addiction.
Introduction 0:00
Hi. Thanks for joining us for another Techless Talk, where we explore how consumer technology shapes our relationships, health and culture. Here's your host techlace founder, Chris Kaspar.
Chris Kaspar 0:18
Hey, everyone, welcome to another Techless Talk. Today we're at a sexual integrity Leadership Summit. We're really lucky with some of the nation's leaders unpacking sexuality in today's culture, I have this really special guest I met yesterday, and we just had this amazing conversation about one of the questions that we get asked all the time, that will be coming soon. But it's my honor today to introduce Josh Glaser. He's an author, speaker and the executive director of an organization called regeneration. So thanks so much for being here. Glad you're glad to be here. We get this question all the time. It's eggless. I've caught my son of call my daughter looking at pornography. What in the world? Yeah, I don't even start. Because that's terrifies me.
Josh Glaser 1:00
Yeah, I think it terrifies all of us. I mean, it's it is a it is a scary thought. I think the place I like to begin is this, what you found out is really bad news. But that you found out is really good news. It is so much better than a parent would actually discover that a son or daughter's been looking at for the that to go undiscovered or for that kid to continue. Because the longer son or daughter is looking at it. Usually the worst problem is going to get doesn't feel
Chris Kaspar 1:23
good. But it is good. It is good. Yeah, right thing it should have happened. You'd be grateful for that moment. Right?
Josh Glaser 1:28
Right. Praise God. And so I mean, if if a parent has has discovered it, because the son or daughter, let them know, all the better, actually. So that I mean, that is one key principle all throughout. So anything we're gonna talk about, anytime your son or daughter is honest with you about what they've been looking at, or what they've been struggling with the go to for parent, and you can look yourself in the mirror and practice over and over again with your spouse. Okay? This is like, I'm so glad you told me I'm so glad thank you for telling. Because because it takes courage. It's a hard thing. I mean, so all the all the emotion you just described that a parent feels like kids are feeling that too. Like the fact that a parent has found out they've been looking at this stuff, that's really hard. So, so acknowledge that.
Chris Kaspar 2:06
So however awkward it was for you, as a parent, it's even more awkward for the kid is and you can just be grateful. In that moment. That's probably not the natural feeling. But I'm so glad you told
Josh Glaser 2:16
me so glad you told me that took a lot of courage. Awesome. And a lot of times when when when a kid shares a little bit. It's they're testing the waters. So there may be more they're going to share. And so that first response is really key to helping your kid open up and trust, they can tell you more
Chris Kaspar 2:31
iceberg. Give you a peek.
Josh Glaser 2:35
I remember when I first started, like telling people like, like I was I start with porn for a long time. And the first person I told like, I didn't tell him everything. I told him a little I felt like this is the most palatable stuff like so from there, it was really helpful to when the response was good. I knew I could trust them. With more.
Chris Kaspar 2:49
You've said, I'm so glad you told me I'm be grateful for that moment. And then and then what in the world happens? What's next? Yeah,
Josh Glaser 2:56
well, so maybe we should go back is yes, a lot of times parents has not been kid told them. They okay, they open up the device and they look at, you know, there's something that's open, left open, or look at the history and they realize, Oh, crap, my son or daughter's been looking at stuff for a while. And so that means that the parent has to broach the topic with the kid. And that is a two piece of advice for them. At first is, don't do it right away, take some time to breathe, like take some time to process. You might even want to call your spouse if you got a trustworthy mentor, somebody you can reach out to just to get support for you. Because a lot of times what parents do is when they go talk to their kid, what they're trying to do, and they're not really trying to help their kid at that point. They're trying to resolve their own pain and their own angst. And that's just too much for the kid, the kids are already wrestling with pornography, like I don't need to also then bear their kid their parents eggs. So the second thing is just you have to go talk to him.
Chris Kaspar 3:45
You have to you have to get out of there.
Josh Glaser 3:50
And I wish I could say that you could like but I've talked to many parents who thought I felt as a face. I thought well, all kids get curious, I brushed under the rug. And like I said, if you don't address it, it's probably going to get worse. So I think being as straightforward as possible. Don't ask questions you already know the answer to that's just a setup for your kid to lie. Don't put them in a position where they're going to
Chris Kaspar 4:09
put them in this trap. Hey, didn't you looked at this? Just tell them hey, I see this. We need to talk.
Josh Glaser 4:16
So how's how's it going for you? Yeah, that's just sewing. That's just sewing mistrust. You just go to and you say, Hey, listen, I opened up your computer today, or I picked up your phone. And I saw a picture that was pornographic. And I want to talk to you about it, and then see what the kid says. That takes courage. It does take courage. It takes courage. But again, at this point, like the fact that you know, you have to trust the fact that you know is good news. It is such a gift to give to your son or daughter. So if we reframe the idea that what they're looking at is harmful to them, whether they know it or not, and some kids do some kids know shouldn't be looking at probably
Chris Kaspar 4:51
most kids know, oh, maybe the younger ones don't but I'd say most of them have this thing with them. They know it's not right. Even if they hadn't even been taught it then So use now.
Josh Glaser 5:01
Yeah. And they'll simultaneously for many of them, it will it'll be confusing because it will feel good. Yeah, you know, it's not like, it's not like a put my hand on the burner. And I know it was wrong, because I'm hurt. It's, I opened this up, and I don't want people to find this out. But I actually am really curious. And I really want to look at it more. And so I think for parents to recognize that's a hard place for kids to be. But it's an important place where parents enter it.
Chris Kaspar 5:22
But you initiate the conversation, you said, Hey, I found this. And then what's next? So
Josh Glaser 5:27
I would suggest that a lot of times at this point a kid will lie. And not because they're a bad kid. But on some level, they're gonna want to minimize what you just found out. And yeah,
Chris Kaspar 5:36
you've that's the trend. So kids lie. They get confronted, and then they lie.
Josh Glaser 5:40
Yeah, I mean, people do. Yeah. And when we're when we are going to feel ashamed, we lie, we try to divert mean, right, go back to the, you know, for every one of us, like we, we want to protect ourselves. And sometimes we want to protect our parents, you know, I don't I don't want to get in trouble. So no, it was just that one thing. Timmy sent it to me. I've never, you know, I'm not gonna look at it again, I didn't even like it.
Chris Kaspar 5:58
Back to the iceberg analogy. They'll if especially if you confront them, they'll be like, Oh, it's just this tiny little thing. And that's not the reality, but that's what they want to present. And that is a face
Josh Glaser 6:07
to face trying to protect themselves, trying to stay out of trouble. I think the other the other. That's the other reason that parent is important. The parents just tell them what they already know. So if I say what's going on the internet, and they lie now, now I have to address okay, you lie on you. So I mean, honestly, I think for for anybody in that situation. I'm not too worried about somebody who lies in that moment. I think it's a defense mechanism. I don't think it means something about our kids character, I think it means they're scared. So I think just having compassion there. And then and then next, you want to just do some fact finding with them some open ended questions about? So I mean, talk to him about how you found this, how you feeling about it? How long it's been going on? What kinds of stuff that you've been looking at those kinds of questions.
Chris Kaspar 6:48
It's very statistical, and a little bit less personal. Just more Yeah, this is the data.
Josh Glaser 6:55
Yeah, we're just looking for information. And when I say fact finding, I want to be clear, like, you're not a private investigator looking to convict a criminal. Yeah, you are like a geologist. And you're trying to just brush some dirt gently away from some bones that you can find what's really happened. And
Chris Kaspar 7:08
he's really started hitting some losses, take a little break, and then pick up the brush again later. That's good.
Josh Glaser 7:15
Yeah, I mean, what are things I'd like to tell my kids like, like, what I want from you is honesty. That's what's most important. Because when you're truthful with me, we have a relationship. If you're pretending or you're lying, have something going on from you don't talk to me about that. We don't have a relationship there. And I just want to be with you in this. So like, if a parent has a history with pornography, and they know personally, some of its Yeah, you know, its effects. They can say something like, the reason I'm asking is not to be in trouble. I just know that pornography can feel good. But it can be really destructive. And so I'm asking because I want to help you.
Chris Kaspar 7:44
All of a sudden, you just made that conversation, not so much. They're not the only ones in the hot seat. You're being vulnerable yourself being on their level, and they see the love. Yeah, in that.
Unknown Speaker 7:56
I hope, I hope
Chris Kaspar 7:57
you've had this initial conversation with them got the elephant out of the room. That was probably the hardest part. Maybe maybe the most awkward part. But now the hard part comes possibly I don't know, what does it look like after that very first conversation, you know, what's the follow up? Often? How regular? Put some meat on the bones here? That's great. Yeah.
Josh Glaser 8:16
So it's never a one time conversation. Yes. And so for a parent who's already been talking to their kids about sex and sexuality, and whatever, the parents moral values, I'm a Christian. So I want to introduce Christian moral values to my kids. That's the standard in our home. And so we want to be talking about those things. So if I haven't been talking to my son or daughter about that, and I discovered pornography, that's a great time to say we're going to do a reset. And so I'll say to my recommended parents say the son or daughter of that point, hey, you know, this is actually really hard part of life. We've talked about sports, we've talked about finance, and we talked about table manners. We talked about being polite, we talked about academics. We haven't really talked much about sexuality. And so let's change that. Let us change the conversation. So we're gonna talk about on a regular basis, depending on your relationship with the kid, yeah, depending on their age, they might be like, Oh, you're kidding me? And you're like, I'm not kidding. Yeah, the 14
Chris Kaspar 9:06
year old will roll their eyes. Not really look forward to the conversation. Maybe.
Josh Glaser 9:11
Yeah, but here's the crazy thing. The research shows that most parents undervalue their influence in their kids lives, their teens lives, especially. And most kids have a higher view of their parents opinion. The parents believe Yeah, especially when it comes to things like sexuality. So parents should really be encouraged like don't listen to look at the outward their outward kind of response to talking to mom or dad, like, it's hard to talk about. It's hard for you to talk about too. I mean, I talk about this for a living, it's hard to talk to my kids. When I spend some time with my kids, like, I'm like, I'm like opening up my own book, like what what are we supposed to do? So? Yeah, it's
Chris Kaspar 9:44
hard. So even in this that conversation, you said research shows that even though I don't feel like my kids are necessarily listening to me. And even though the kids don't act like that, that there's a way more value and connection going on behind the scenes and we're both craving that and it's really a good healthy And even though it didn't feel that way, necessarily, yeah. And
Josh Glaser 10:03
honestly, for some parents, this will be a point where some of the the fault lines and the relationships with the kids will come to the forefront. Yeah. So if if there's a lack of trust, it's already there. If there's contention that's ongoing in the home, if the if the son or daughter does not like does not open up to mom and dad and doesn't talk, like this is not going to be like a magic pill there, there might be other issues that need to be faced at this point. So But assuming that there is a level of trust, and assuming that the son or daughter is does have a pretty good relationship with Mom or Dad, this is just a new avenue to begin talking about. So from there, what I'd recommend to parents is a parent really needs at this point to begin getting more information about, is this a significant problem? Is there a habit that's formed? Is there an addiction that's going on here? Do I need to get extra help for my son or daughter? One thing we might consider is this though, for for most parents watching, they can probably think back to moments in their life where there was a sexual issue or some of their issue. They walked and lived with a loan. Yeah. And so think back to those moments and wouldn't what would it have been to you to have a trusting, caring adult, maybe a mom or dad, who really was invested in you, and wasn't just trying to get you to do the right thing, really wanted to, like authentically wanted to help you through it,
Chris Kaspar 11:10
I just feel very vulnerable here. I remember when I was, I don't know how old I was 13, or something. I told my dad, this is something I struggle with. And I love him. He's a solid guy 10 out of 10. But you know, tears crying. And this was probably one of the most difficult things, most of the most courageous things I've ever done in my life to this point. After that, nothing happened. I know he loves me deeply. But it was just so intimidating to him. And so that's my heart in making this video releasing this content is to try to de intimidate it and make it something that there's hope. And there's like you said that people see the beauty in what's going on there and the opportunity. And I think I think men just like you said, so many people have experienced a story similar to mine. And I think, you know, now I'm older. I have regret for that. And so let's not allow this to be something that our kids regret moving forward. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 11:59
Well said love that. Love that. That's fantastic. Yep.
Chris Kaspar 12:02
So you're having these conversations, and you're still I mean, your head spinning? What's a framework to help us understand what's going on and really diagnose or get to the heart of it? That's what you're you're talking about heart level stuff here. Yeah. So how do you get there? Yeah. So
Josh Glaser 12:15
with the fact finding, I think one of the one of the places that a parent would be wise to go and let's just assume for the moment that the kid the son or daughter is open, at least to some degree to talking with it. So there's a there's a gateway for conversation. Yeah, yeah. So so we want to explore I'd like to think about it three areas. One is, is how long has this been going on? Second is when it happens, kind of how long? Is it happening here? Immediately sit down for 15 minutes? Are you spending, you know, all day doing this? And the third is, and this is a hard one, but what kind of stuff? Are you watching? Yeah, and apparently might have an idea about this by Saturday. We're not looking for graphic information. Just like you know, you know, is it heterosexual porn? Is it is it gay porn is involved like stuff that's, that's making you feel queasy, or awkward, like, we want to get a joy out of it. And the reason for asking those kinds of digging into those three things is because the longer it's been going on, the more time they're spending doing it and the more intensive stuff, they're looking at higher indicator that they're actually gonna need some outside help. Yeah, so if this just started last week, and I've looked three times for five minutes each, so let's keep walking as you know, father, and son or mom and daughter something for now, let's see where this goes. But if it's this been going on for three years, and yeah, the stuff I started with is nowhere near the stuff I'm looking at. Now, that's a progression that we wanted, we probably need to talk to somebody who's got more experience to help them. So assuming on some level, you're the son or daughter's got some extra support they need it or that we're just not certain right now that's necessary. The other thing I want encourage at this point is for parents, and again, depending on the kids age, to really with the kids buy in to begin looking for patterns. So when is this typically happening? Like when are you typically watching porn? You know that after school when you're here by yourself? Is it so you want it? So think about like, time of day, day of week. So what are the circumstances surrounding it? Because a lot of times kids are going to porn, not just because they're I mean, there's something going on in their life. They're, they're stressed, they're anxious. They're lonely. It's not about the porn. It's not about the porn. Yeah. And so once we get once, once a kid has some sense of like, oh, you know, it's, it's, it's usually when I'm studying because I feel stressed about school. Alright, well, now we're dealing with the human problem of feeling stressed about school, which
Chris Kaspar 14:23
is a little less shameful to talk about. On some levels. Yeah. And
Josh Glaser 14:27
so let's start dealing with that. So I was talking to a kid several years ago and and part of what he started recognizing was that it was exactly his issues. Like you're connecting the dots for him. Yeah, well, yeah, he was connecting the dots because we were just asking questions and trying to dig together. He was like, Yeah, I think it's it's usually when doing homework, I feel a lot of pressure to to do well in school, and I don't do that well, and, and so I was like, Well, what would help you in the midst that so he came up on his own every hour, I stopped for like 1015 minutes, and I go out, I shoot my basketball or I play my guitar for a little bit, just to decompress. And then I go back in and I study some more
Chris Kaspar 14:58
so that stress level never hit As Pastor
Josh Glaser 15:02
he came up with that on his own. Yeah, and what and what a great thing for him to do. So
Chris Kaspar 15:06
that creative thinking, I mean, yeah, that's something that you can do very practical.
Josh Glaser 15:10
Yeah. And the more buy in the kid has, the more able they are then to kind of follow up, explore what's going left for them to make adjustments as they move forward.
Chris Kaspar 15:19
Awesome. So as a dad, who may have this conversation in the future, what I'm, what I am left with right now is like, Okay, where's the follow up look like the follow up conversations, you can have a really good concept of what does it look like? Initially, you know, but that that intimidates me. very ambiguous. Yeah, help help us out?
Josh Glaser 15:38
Well, I, you know, I think a lot of will depend on the on the personality, parent and personality to kids. So I don't want to like a one size fits all. But a couple of principles would be does your family work better with something scheduled? Like, you know, for me, if I don't schedule something, I just, I forget about it. And time goes by and, and so like, I might say, like, you know, well, once a week, why don't we Why don't we meet what's a good time where we can just chat for 10 or 15 minutes, max? And then we set at that time and make it good? Like, you know, what else can we make? You know, how can make it more pleasant? Like, you know, let's go out and grab a coffee or Let's go, we'll get an ice cream cone together as we do this, like something. So it's not it's not this isn't a you know, a miserable experience. This is a time for us to connect. Yes, exactly. That's a big bright way to Yeah, and ask you these five questions. Okay,
Chris Kaspar 16:23
so donuts help satiate make chill, you know, yeah, calms the
Josh Glaser 16:27
conversation down. But I think also for a parent, like be willing to ask the direct questions. Because again, it's it's hard for you to talk about, it's hard for your kid to talk about. So you broach the topic. You know, like, hey, so how's it how's it going with pornography this week? Have you looked? Yeah, how often, like, just unpack it for me a little bit.
Chris Kaspar 16:43
Some of the biggest secret is just be courageous and asking Frank questions. That seems like half the battle.
Josh Glaser 16:49
Frank, gentle, open ended. Yeah, about accusing. It's not about like, you know, because I'm gonna punish you. It's really, I want to know what's happening for you, I love you, I want to know what's going on for you. The other thing I'd say is, if you're not a scheduler, if you kind of like, let's just try to do it once a week. Like, just pick a good time. Like, don't do it on the way to something like we're we're gonna be around a lot of guests. And, you know, so okay, we're going to Grandma's house, I'm gonna ask you the way to Grandma's house, like, now like he walked in flustered. Shame hangover, and I'm walking in, and it's good to see my little baby, and you're just like, I just want to be alone. So like, find, find a good time and talk to your kid about that, like, when is a good time for this, you know, just get, we want to make it a safe chance for a lot of kids, like, they'll just want some space after that, like, you know, let's we'll talk about it. And then I want to go play Nintendo for a bit, you know, my, my getting on my Atari, what's much sucks, sweat,
Chris Kaspar 17:45
kids don't play Atari. Actually, some of the really cool kids. But it's retro, you know,
Josh Glaser 17:54
but something something so that son or daughter can go and they can they can have some space by themselves if they need that. If they don't like what, what do they need. So it's really about just kind of walking with them through that,
Chris Kaspar 18:05
that this whole conversation has been very helpful for me. Very encouraging. So what would be kind of parting words that you would leave with their audience here just to say, you know, hey, this might be the what are the odds? First of all, the odds are high that this is going to be a conversation that almost every parent's going to have, if you hadn't had it already. So you know, what, what would you tell our staff to leave with you?
Josh Glaser 18:26
You know, I think the I think the most helpful thing is, we should probably do this at the outset. But the primary goal is not you kids not looking at porn, the primary goal is raising kids who love well, they know what real love is, and they are there they are receiving that kind of love. And they're trying to learn to love like that. Yeah, that means that if your kid is doing well in this area, if they're doing poorly in this area, there's always opportunities for you to love them well to model that as you're relating with them. And talk to them about the larger picture of like, where do you want to go with this that would move you in the direction of love
Chris Kaspar 18:56
and feel like you're just taking this whole issue. It just made it really small actually, and made it all about character and relationship and these beautiful things that we want to be doing as parents anyways, and pornography just became a lot less intimidating.
Josh Glaser 19:10
It's a subcategory of a much bigger picture. That's a symptom discipleship towards loving Well, yep. Wow.
Chris Kaspar 19:16
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time. Yeah. Thanks for having me honored to have you just this is just solid stuff. I know many of us are gonna have lots of great takeaways. Thanks for your time. Great. Awesome. So So Josh, wrote a book called treading boldly, I would love for you to take a minute and pack the book, because I think you've already given some really good, solid wisdom here. And I think this is just the extension to that. Yeah.
Josh Glaser 19:38
So the book I co authored with Daniel Weiss of the brushfires Foundation. And I mean, we're both parents. So we're in the in this too. And our the goal, the book is pretty, pretty much three different things. The first is pornography is it's going to find your kids it's not a matter of because looking for it. We live in a pornographic culture in some way. It's going to intersect your kid's life so parents need to get in the game with their kids. The Second is if we're going to get in the game well and be able to love them. Well, we got to take a look at our own sexual stories. And this is probably the most courageous part of the whole book. But the book helps to walk parents through what do I need to look at? How far do I need to go? What if I'm in, you know, struggle with stuff myself, we address all that in the book. The third is kind of what I talked about with the area of love. This is not a book about what we're against. It's primarily a book about what we are for. And so it hopefully helps you as a parent to figure out what are the real values of my home, my family and how can I how can I fold this conversation in these topics underneath that,
Chris Kaspar 20:29
if you liked what you heard today, which I'm eating it up, go check out the book, treading boldly thank you so much for tuning in. We'll see you next time.
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