Techless CEO, Chris Kaspar, sits down with healthy technology thought leader, Jon Lentz to discuss intentionality behind our relationships with media.
Introduction 0:00
Hey. Thanks for joining us for another Techless Talk, where we explore how consumer technology shapes our relationships, health and culture. Here's your host, Techless founder, Chris Kaspar.
Chris Kaspar 0:13
Hey everyone, this is Chris, and I'm so excited to welcome a new friend of mine. Jon Lentz is joining us for our first ever two shot conversation here, he drove from North Dallas to Shiner, you're probably a five hour drive to partially have this conversation with us. John is going to be helping us I'm really excited, he's going to be helping us kind of reevaluate and determine what sort of product 2.0 for us is. So we've launched Wisephone, we've got some traction there, and we want to serve you guys better. So what's the next step? He's doing a deep dive here. As I've gotten to know him, I want him to share a bit of his story, because I think that his story will inspire your story. And so we're talking about what to title this video. And John knows, we're talking through shownotes. And everything came up with the idea of let's call it what do you value social or media, I'm not going to unpack that yet, you got to hang on to the end. And to understand what social or media we added the or in the middle what that actually looks like. But we have a lot in common. Our families are about the same age. So what kind of tell us a little bit about just your background, your family, etc? And then we can start going from there.
Jon Lentz 1:20
Yeah. Well, Chris thanks so much for having me here. It's great to be with you. Great to meet everyone out there. So I've been married for seven years, this summer, to my beautiful wife, and we have three children. So my oldest son is four and a half, My middle child has just turned two. And we have our first girl in the family of our daughter, Penelope, who is going to be eight months this month.
Chris Kaspar 1:40
So awesome. Yeah. And so we're hitting year nine, and we've got our fourth ones on the way all into the age five clubs, our families are basically the same. We've got the same so we have common shared stories. So we're not going to sit here and riff on parenting philosophy, because we're still learning ourselves. Absolutely. But John has thought very intentionally about tech in his family, and just family time and what that looks like. And so that's what we're going to uncover, as he sort of asked these questions, and I think they might spark some creative ideas for your family. So if you wouldn't mind, kind of diving into the journey of how you got to basically this intentional process that you've gone through and starting with, really the your first child, basically, I think, is where the story begins for this conversation.
Jon Lentz 2:25
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think parents today face some new challenges in some regards to how to manage just being completely inundated with smart TVs, iPads, cell phones, having these things readily available that when you and I were growing up, just weren't around, or they were very rare. You know, I know, for our family, we had one desktop computer that sat kind of in the main living space. It wasn't something people walked around with in their pockets, or just, you know, on their wrists or any of those sorts of things. And so, for parents, we want to be thoughtful in everything that we do in regards to our children, what do we give them access to? How do we train them in the way that they should go? And that really started with media. It's just everywhere we have TVs, it seems in every room, Mom and Dad carry cell phones. And so we really wanted to be thoughtful in how much do we expose them to media and entertainment? And what does that engagement look like? And how can we redeem that time when we do and not just have it be a second babysitter, or just mindless activity for hours on it, it was probably when my oldest was about three is when we really started to take it more seriously, really, at three years old, it started to become more of an awareness for him where he wanted to sit down and actually watch TV shows or watch movies. It was something to talk about if something other people in Sunday school classes or in his social circle would say, Hey, have you seen the show and all these sorts of things, or they would have characters from shows that they would watch. So it was a more intentional conversation. And I think sometimes when you're retired parent, it's easy just to hand the cellphone over and say, Hey, here's a safe YouTube video, here's some pictures to look through. It'll just give mom and dad 10 minutes of rest. And we didn't just want to be mindless and doing that. We want it to be very intentional that when we do provide opportunities for media engagement, that it's meaningful, it's something that our family has bought into. It's not just a momentary decision.
Chris Kaspar 4:07
See your son turned three? And then you said, let's hit the pause button. Let's question these assumptions that society and culture have handed to us. It's a different world than what we did growing up. And now let's go on this journey of asking what is the healthy way to look at this? What is the proper way to look at it since that moment, what is transpired? What does that look like for you guys?
Jon Lentz 4:27
Yeah, so you know, it's it is a journey Exactly. Like you said, and I think for most people, there's no right or wrong answer. There's no one thing that you should do. And one thing that you should try, I think every child every home is a little bit different. And so for us, we tried a bunch of different things where it was watching TV on certain days of the week or was allocating maybe an hour or half hour each day to television or to iPad or to whatever it was. And we just were really feeling like the more that we did that the lazier quite honestly that we got his parents. It was really easy to check out and to be so excited about these moments when we could turn on a show or, or handover an iPad or a phone or an iPad and then 30 minutes of time would turn into an hour of time. And so finally my wife and I just said, Listen, we want to be intentional with this. And so the TV's gonna go away. So the TV is upstairs in a room in our house that nobody lives in that nobody really uses. And we pull it out once a week on Fridays for family movie night is that one on those like old school rollers languishing was trying to find one, that's where it would be
Chris Kaspar 5:24
like do you manhandle it out.
Jon Lentz 5:25
Oh, absolutely. The cord and everything down the stairs. And so you know, if it gets dropped, we just have no TV, I guess. Yeah, that sounds like hard work. It is. It's my workout for the week. So you know, and so, you know, every single Friday, we have Movie Night, and something that kids look forward to, it's something that they anticipate throughout the week. It's about, you know, hour and a half to two hours of time. And we're very selective as far as the movies that we choose to show the the,
Chris Kaspar 5:49
my wife and I, we're debating right now whether or not we should let our girls watch Frozen. And that seems like a weird question. But again, that's the same type of assumption. There's just he and of course, little girls get to watch Frozen. But we're just asking the question, who knows, we might end up letting them watch Frozen, or maybe not, but whatever it's gonna get in their brains. And it's gonna affect the way that they think
Jon Lentz 6:05
it's really interesting, because, you know, I think a lot of people put out these ideas of, hey, watch TV once a week, or do this or do that. And like I said, at the beginning, some things work for some families, and they wouldn't work for others. And so everybody is a little bit different. But we're in the business world metrics made a lot. So looking at the results and saying, okay, you know, how has this positively impacted our family, my wife was sick the other day while I was working. And so she did need a little bit of help. So we brought the TV down to turn on a movie for the kids, because she was she was just sick, they had no interest in at all, getting away from the TV had really activated the creative realms of their brain to where they wanted to be outside building afford or engaging in the games that they were playing, and they wanted to be drawing pictures, they wanted to go outside and play with their friends, the TV was almost of no interest to them, that has forced us to do as parents is not just to say, Okay, we're going to remove TV or media attention from you, now you go find a way to replace it, we have sought to actively engage with them to show them the meaning and other things that we hope that they'll replace it with. So relationship creativity, exploration, just being kids, you know, running around getting dirty, trying to create new games with balls and sticks outside whatever the case may be. And that has brought them so much joy to where they see the value in what those things can teach them and give them that really the TV and some of just really that fake reality that you start to engage in just loses some of its appeal.
Chris Kaspar 7:30
We title this video, what do you value social or media? So let's dive into the social or media thing. First, why did you add the or in the title laid out for us?
Jon Lentz 7:41
I really love to take a look at buzzwords in our culture in our society and pull them apart and say, Why did they catch on? Why do people gravitate to this? And why do we add this to be a regular part of our vocabulary. And so if you look at social media, these are actually a very odd pairing, in my opinion, of two different words, the original concept was to create a society across digital mediums, right. And so whether that was computers, cell phones, Facebook, Instagram, it could be apps, it could be platforms, we wanted to find ways to be more connected. And that's not a new concept. People have written letters and, and call people. And now with email, and text and all the tools available to us that's very present. But what I find is that more people care about the media aspect of creating a personal brand, or their own narrative, or getting their message out into the culture, or talking about themselves and creating this picture of who they are more so than actually stopping to get to know other people that are on these platforms, it becomes more self centered in how can I promote me and let the world know how great I am or what I'm all about, instead of really taking time to say, Who are you genuinely and how can I know you love you and enter into relationship with you. And I really respect people that we're trying to use these avenues of media to create that. But I think for most of us, we feel even more disconnected in an ever connected world, when my son would be coming down a slide at a playground, my wife and I were so concerned with capturing a video or a picture to be able to send to people that were 1000s of miles away, that we really weren't living in that moment, and just celebrating the joy of his face and watching him come down the slide. And we're really somewhere very far off or thinking about how this can get likes, or how we can promote this and capture a great picture, that we're really missing the joy and the beauty of moments to build relationships. And so that's why I say it's either social or media I think very few people know how to do both. And and what do you actually care more about? Are you engaging on these platforms more because of the platform that gives you to express yourself or because of the opportunity to interact with others that you would have never come into contact with.
Chris Kaspar 9:46
You've gone a few years now on this intentional journey. What has been some of your bigger high level takeaways are things that just realized that just kind of came out of thin air as you're going on this journey?
Jon Lentz 9:58
Yeah, I think it's it's just real The that there is an alternative that is fulfilling and rich, it doesn't feel like I'm really missing out on anything too much, because what I've replaced it with is so rich and fulfilling. And I'm thankful for that. I don't know if you've ever heard this growing up, but I've always loved work. And I was always excited to grow up and join the workforce. And my parents and others in my life would say, Hey, slow down, you'll have the rest of your life to work, just go enjoy being a child. But I think with social media, even though it may not be work as we would traditionally define it, it brings all of the pressures and responsibilities that work does that our parents were saying, hey, just go be a kid. Go enjoy being sixth, seventh, and eighth. Don't worry about the need to perform. Don't worry about the need to look good on Instagram don't need Don't worry about the need to have your narrative on life and your political alignment all figured out. By the time you're seven years old. Yeah, just go and enjoy throwing rocks, you know, in the woods, or just doing something that only six and seven year olds do. Yeah. Go love on people and laugh and just enjoy the simple things in life. Even in my children, I love to see just the beauty of their personalities come alive, when they have an opportunity to engage with things that are psychologically proven to be better for them. It wasn't the first two days we took away TV, they were completely different children, sure. But it's that pattern of allowing them to see us and be influenced by their parents or the people in our church or in our life that we love and know and trust, more so than just whatever happens to come on the screen. I do not do any kind of media personally, because I found that I was too susceptible to getting distracted that in those moments where I look up and you know, you're at Thanksgiving, and your entire family is with you. Everyone that you claim to care about most in the world is right there. And I'm stuck looking at sports scores or politics or whatever the case may be. And I'm missing out on these moments. And so is it easy? Not necessarily, right? It's convenient, it caters to the thing inside ourselves, which we love the most, which tends to be ourselves, right. And so to have an opportunity to be somewhere where it's all about us that's really attractive.
Chris Kaspar 11:59
intentionality is a big word for Techless, like people that like Techless are intentional people. And if you're not intentional, we're not a good option, because it's not easy to have a Whitestone. But you're on the very, very intentional scale on that continuum. And yet, you've made the choice and said, Hey, I'm I just can't play the game. I can't do both. I mean, even the CEO of Apple, Tim Cook says I use my iPhone too much he recognized the same thing that you recognize that this is just it's a trap. It's difficult, it's very difficult. And you know, he's intentional. He's the CEO of Apple,
Jon Lentz 12:31
I would actually approach it more as an Eastern thinker than a Western thinker, right? Because if you have people in an Asian culture, who are saying, Look, I'm out of shape, and I want to get in shape, and then you have somebody in Western culture that says I'm out of shape, and I want to get in shape, the Western culture person will go and drop $200 a month to join a gym, and they'll get all this protein stuff from Costco, and they'll be like, Man, I'm gonna go seven days a week, I'm gonna be there for two hours, and I'm just gonna be jacked in like a month, and then they fail. And then on day two or three, in the eastern culture, they just will say, I'm going to do one more push up today than I did yesterday. Yeah. And so they'll do one pushup today, then tomorrow, they'll do two, and by the end of the year, look at who is actually fitter. Yeah, and it's very, it's a very different mindset. And so if you are looking and going, it would be incredibly daunting for me to get rid of my social media or to get rid of my smartphone. Just start small think 30 minutes a day. Let me just put it down, put it on silence, put it in the drawer, and just see how that goes tomorrow, do an hour after that. Maybe put your iPad away for a whole day and just use your cell phone or put your TV away and just use your cell phone, right? I mean, mix and match figure out what works for you. I think it's an interesting experience. Yeah, and then find something meaningful to replace it with don't just say, Okay, I'm gonna put my phone away and then sit there and stare at a wall for 30 minutes, but find something intentional to go and do to replace that time with meaning and with purpose.
Chris Kaspar 13:50
Alright, so one of the other things to kind of wrap up the conversation, we've talked about social or media sort of presented some of the challenges with it. But this other idea of what do you value because at the end of the day, you said something very profound. Yesterday, you said at the end of the day, we make decisions based on what we value. And if we really think about it, we we as Americans, or worldwide have things that we value that Weis phone could offer techlace could offer our smartphones sometimes take away from it. But being intentional uncovering those things is important. So unpack that concept. How are you looking at this when when you hear that that phrase? Do
Jon Lentz 14:24
you value being healthy or you know do you value sitting on the couch and watching TV? Do you value eating clean or going to McDonald's right I mean we all have heard these types of choices applied in different veins. But what it came down to for me again looking at my children saying what a gift they are to be a part of my life and in my home every single day. However, there will come a time when they will not live with my wife and I anymore. The time is the most precious commodity because we can't buy more of it and we can't get it back once it's gone. And so for me what I do value is the time that I have to be intentional with others the time I have here with you To time with my family, and I don't want anything to distract me to where I look up and realize that it's gone. And I no longer have that time to sit on the couch with my son, cuddling and reading a book and enjoying that moment, I could easily sit, you know, spend sitting there looking at my phone. And for me, that's just not what I value. And so we all make decisions based on the things that we do, in fact value. And so whether or not you choose to minimize your social media engagement, or minimalize the tech footprint in your home, it really is because you value something else. And you see that as more important than whatever it is that you're giving up. And so in that sense, it does become a little bit easier to do it. If you keep that value item front and center in your mind and remember why you're doing the things in life that you're doing. Our children don't know how to engage with their media. And when we hand a smartphone to a child at anywhere from six to 10. And we just say, Hey, go and do well with this, it would be like us kicking them out of our house and saying go and make something of yourself in the world and come back when you've done it. They just have no point of reference to do the simplest of things. So walk with your children walk with your spouse to say, hey, these things that we do value, let's be moving in that direction. You don't have to go off social media completely or just throw everything in the garbage, but find a healthy and appropriate way to interact with it and give it the proper place in your life. Not a wrongful hierarchy in your life of saying, Well, if this isn't what I value, why is it the most important thing in my day to day interactions?
Chris Kaspar 16:29
So what's our takeaway? What would you encourage anybody watching this? Who's kind of heard a little bit of your story heard some of your intentionality? What would you what would you leave them with? Yeah, it
Jon Lentz 16:38
all comes back to conversation, in my opinion, sit down and have conversation with those that love you that you love and figure out and ask the question of what do you value? And where do you see the disconnects in your life? And I think that will really start you on a very interesting journey of hey, what do we do with that? Our journey was not overnight, it wasn't like we sat down and had that conversation. The next day, everything instantly changed. And life was was blissful. We went through a lot of iterations of wanting to hold on things and realizing we needed to let them go or trying this and it didn't work and trying that. So figure out what that sweet spot is for you and just be uncompromising. Don't allow yourself to compromise what you want in the here. And now for what you want holistically. One of my favorite books is Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And one of the principles is begin with the end in mind. So if you're a parent, or if you're a spouse, think 18 years down the road when your kid goes off to college think 50 years from now, once you've been married for that extended amount of time and think about what do I want my relationships to look like? What do I want my life, the story of my life to be? And take those steps now to make sure that that is the reality of your outcome. It's not just this concept that when you're there, you look back and go Well, it's too late to change anything.
Chris Kaspar 17:47
Great words. John, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for making the drive. Thanks for sharing a little bit of your story, the last year and a half or so some of your philosophy giving us good thoughts to chew on and really encouraging us and challenge us. Thank you so much for being part of this. Of course.
Jon Lentz 18:03
Thanks for having me on. It's been good.
Chris Kaspar 18:05
Thanks, everyone for listening in. Make sure that you subscribe to our channel if you haven't already. And I would just encourage you take this message to heart. We're not here just talking just to talk. We actually care about you. We care about your life. We want to make a difference. We want to help you in any way that you can. And the first step is asking that question, what do you value? The next step is is just applying it actually making a difference not being the guy that says I'm gonna go and lose 40 pounds goes to the gym and gives up after two days. We want you to have something sustainable long term systems that really make a difference in the life of you and your family. Thanks again for tuning in.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai